Forums: Rules Discussion: Clearification on Swallow-Spike when only Grabbed and not Engulfed. (2024)

May I get a rule clarification on the Swallow-Spike Armor Property Rune?

The situation: Player gets grabbed, but not swallowed whole. Are they able to use the reaction and the first part of the damage, or do they need to be swallowed to activate the reaction?

Quote:

Activate [reaction] envision (attack); Trigger You become grabbed, restrained, or otherwise held immobilized in a creature's grasp, such as by being engulfed or swallowed; Effect Your armor suddenly grows spikes, attacking the triggering creature. The armor makes a melee attack with an attack modifier of +14 that deals 2d6 piercing damage. If the creature is swallowing or engulfing you, the attack deals an additional 1d6 damage, and damage from this attack can cut you free if it equals or exceeds the Rupture value of the immobilizing ability. This attack gets an item bonus to the attack roll equal to the armor's item bonus to your AC and an item bonus to damage equal to double that amount.

One side of the group sees the example in the text as inclusive. The text is that the trigger is requisites are satisfied, and the second part of the trigger of being engulfed or swallowed is an example of conditions.

The 2d6 would go off, but the second effect of 1d6 would not be triggered.

The other side reads the text as exclusionary. You become grabbed, restrained, etc. BECAUSE OF being swallowed or engulfed. Thus, you can not use the reaction due to not satisfying the triggering effect.

I appreciate your feedback.

Why would the text even have the "If the creature is swallowing or engulfing you..." line if that was the ONLY way to trigger the rune?

JC, yes it triggers if you become grabbed, restrained, or otherwise held immobilized in a creature's grasp

The reaction effect is divided in 2 parts:

The first one happens if the char was "become grabbed, restrained, or otherwise held immobilized in a creature's grasp, such as by being engulfed or swallowed" that will be "The armor makes a melee attack with an attack modifier of +14 that deals 2d6 piercing damage".

The second one happens only if the reaction was trigged by a "swallowing or engulfing" that also will "deals an additional 1d6 damage, and damage from this attack can cut you free if it equals or exceeds the Rupture value of the immobilizing ability".

My only doubt is the part of "This attack gets an item bonus to the attack roll equal to the armor's item bonus to your AC and an item bonus to damage equal to double that amount."

So I'm unsure if a +3 armor will give a "2d6+6 piercing damage and an additional 1d6 damage" to a swallowed/engulfed creature or if it will be "2d6+6 piercing damage and an additional 1d6+6 damage" once that the effect doesn't specify where the item bonus to damage is applied.

The item name and the 'such as by' example, are the only things that try and indicate that being engulfed or swallowed are the only ways of being able to trigger the spike activations.

I don't think those are sufficient.

The trigger is being grabbed or restrained by the creature's grasp - so some part of their body, not by something like a weapon from a humanoid NPC enemy using a weapon with the grapple trait. But it doesn't require anything more than that they are applying the grabbed or restrained conditions.

There is also, as is mentioned above, an added benefit to the item's attacks "If the creature is swallowing or engulfing you", which indicates that the item's attack can also be used if the creature is not swallowing or engulfing you.

Finoan wrote:

The trigger is being grabbed or restrained by the creature's grasp - so some part of their body, not by something like a weapon from a humanoid NPC enemy using a weapon with the grapple trait. But it doesn't require anything more than that they are applying the grabbed or restrained conditions.

Had not considered that, but it does make some sense.